Notes


Note    N12         Index
This John Timms, according to his certified birth record from MassachuThis John Timms, according to his certified birth record from Massachusetts, was born at 5 South Cedar Street. I could find no such street on current Boston maps. I went to the central library Boston in October 1912 to see if I could track down where exactly it was. I discovered that it was in fact called South Cedar Street Place and that the name changed part way through 1857. Previously, it was called Cedar Street Court, and Cedar Street Place. The street still is called South Cedar Street Place today, although it appears to be a private lane that leads off Winchester Street. It has three doors. The one on the east side bears number 2. The two doors on the west side are without numbers. From a search of the addresses on Winchester Street, the buildings on the west side appear to be condos now. Winchester Street itself used to be called Cedar Street. Both streets are very close to the south end of the Boston Commons.

He married Elizabeth Haley on April 2, 1879 at the Methodist Episcopalian Church in West Nissouri not St. Marys, Ontario. They were both Methodists. He was age 21 and she 20. He was a bachelor and she a spinster. His rank or profession was shown as "yeoman". I am surprised at the use of that word in Ontario in the late 19th century. On the marriage certificate, he is shown as born in Boston, Mass., U.S.A. and Elizabeth in Canada. His parents are listed as John and Mary Timms. Unfortunately no place for his parents' residence shown at the time of the marriage - does that mean that they were not in Ontario? Elizabeyth's parents were shown as William and Mary Haley of West Nissouri. The reverend John B. Cutler presided. [See copy of marriage certificate.] The marriage is registered as 008738 for that year, on page 280 of the 3rd volume for 1879, being for Perth County, South Riding, Division of St. Marys. The witnesses were John Haley and Isabella Haley, both of West Nissouri. I am guessing that they were her brother John and his wife Isabella.

I could not find them in the 1881 Ontario census for quite some time until I ran every John born in 1857 in the USA. Finally I found them under Timins They are there in there is West Nissouri as follows:
Census Place: Nissouri West, Middlesex East, Ontario, Canada
Source: FHL Film 1375905 NAC C-13269 Dist 167 SubDist F Div 2 Page 40 Family 176
Sex Marr Age Origin Birthplace
John TIMINS M M 23 English USA
Occ: Labourer Religion: Episcopal Methodist
Lizzie TIMINS F M 22 English Ontario
Religion: Episcopal Methodist
John TIMINS M 1 English Ontario
Religion: Episcopal Methodist

This John Timms was the quarry master for St. Mary's Cement in St. Mary's Ontario, Canada. (See picture of the old quarry.) This is perhaps ironic as his son John married into the family who were cousins to the original owners of St. Marys Cement - the Linds. Austin Timms, his grandson who also worked in the quarry for a period, says that John lost an eye working in the quarry when a piece of rock being broken flew up into it. At the time of his death, which actually occurred in Detroit, Michigan, U.S.A., he was living on Queen St. West in St. Mary's. [See picture taken in late August 1997.] He died in Harper Hospital in Detroit after being ill for almost a year with uremia poisoning. Austin says that he went to the hospital in Detroit on his sister Mary Jane's advice who was herself living in Detroit at the time. Although my dad's cousin Austin Timms says that John had prostate cancer, according to my research, "uraemic poisoning" was a 19th century term for kidney failure. Whether that means that John had diabetes, I do not know.

There is a street in St. Mary's bearing the name Timms Lane; however, it is not named after our family but rather after the former mayor of the town. Nonetheless, see the picture.

In the 1911 census, done in June of that year, he and Elizabeth were stil lliving on the farm in West Nissouri. However, since the farm was sold in March of that year, I guess that they had a rigt to occupy for some further time.

In the 1921 Censaus, he and Elizabeth were living at 118 Queen St. in St Mary's. Russell, although 27 years old was also there.

Here is a copy of his obituary:

John Timms an old and respected citizen of St. Marys and district, died in Detroit on Sunday following an illness of a year or more. In Harper hospital, Detroit Mich., on Sunday morning, June 18th, John Timms passed away following an illness of almost a year's duration, which was caused by Uremia poisoning.

The deceased was born in Boston, Mass., Dec. 1st 1858. He spent his boyhood days in England, later returning to New York City. After spending a number of years there and in the Eastern States, he came to Canada and took up farming, residing for many years in Nissouri. On April 2nd, 1879, he was married to Elizabeth Haley, daughter of William and Mary Haley, of the 4th line, Nissouri. He later moved to Biddulph, spending a number of years on the farm now occupied by Mr. A. Cook of Prospect Hill. In June 1918, he moved to St. Marys, taking up residence on Queens Street west.

He leaves to mourn his loss, his bereaved widow and six children: John R. of Calgary, Alberta; Mrs.. Roy German and Mrs. James A. Forrest also of Calgary; Mrs. Jas. T. Proctor of Cheyenne Wyoming; Mrs. Jack McGill of Detroit Mich., and Russell, at home.

The funeral was a large one and took place on Tuesday to St. Marys cemetery. Many wreaths of flowers were sent from old friends and relatives, as Mr. Timms was well and widely known for his genial and unselfish qualities. The funeral took place at his home on Tuesday the 20th at 2:30 o'clock. The service was at 2 PM. He was interred in St. Mary's on June 20, 1922. He and Elizabeth are buried in Section M, row 1, spot 18 of the St. Marys Cemetery. (See picture of tombstone.)

I have seen the death certificate. It says that he died of uremia, with hyperttophied prostate, in Harper Hospital, at 5:15 AM, on June 22, 1922. He was attended by Dr. J. B. Dibble?

What is very odd is that while it lists his father correctly as John Timms,born in London, England, it has his mother as Mary Tripper born in Marietta, Ohio.

This same newspaper clipping has him born on December 1, 1858. This is not correct - see the copy of his birth certificate. As well, he appears on the April 1871 census as 13 years old - see below.

It appears as if John did indeed spend some time in England, as I found him being baptised in Cherington, Warwickshire, on November 27, 1864 in the baptism register on page 69, number 550. He would have been almost 7 years old then. Was he sent to live with his grandfather who seemed to be back in England by at least 1861? Did his parents also go back to England briefly? I have not been able to find them in the 1861 census in England. Might he have gone there alone? At the age of seven, that seems very unlikely. More likely his parents travelled to England with him. Perhaps his father went to England to avoid the American Civil War. Did his parents split up and only his father stay in England?

Austin Timms' dad Russell Timms told him that this John worked in northern Michigan in the bush doing lumber before coming to Canada. This is not possible as he was only 10 in 1871 This story, if true, must refer to the John Timms born in 1831. Likewise he cannot have spent time in the eastern USA except with his parents and could not have farmed on his own until after he got married. That does beg the question as to where his parents and siblings were before the move to Canada and after 1871. In the 1911 census, it says that he arrived in Canada in 1868 when he would have been 9 years old. So, where was he between 1864 when he was baptised in England and 1868 when he came to Canada?

The 1871 census for Ontario shows a John Timms, silver plater, living in Middlesex East District, London Township. Aunt Vera's brief genealogy sheet says he was a silver plater. (According to the instructions given to the enumerators, the statement of facts regarding population and deaths noted in the census are to be as they actually were on April 2, 1871.) His age (40) would make him exactly the right age to be my great, great grandfather. He is shown as being born in England and as belonging to the Church of England. His wife is shown to be Mary aged 38. She is shown as being born in the U.S.A. Both parents are shown as being of English origin. There are 5 children listed: John aged 13, born in the U.S.A.; William aged 10, born in the U.S.A.; Sarah Sofieh (it may be Sophia, but is very hard to read; given that her grandmother was Sophia, it is probably spelled like that), aged 5, born Ontario; Mary Jane aged 4, born in Ontario; and Ellen aged 3, born in Ontario. The age of John matches the age of my great grandfather at that time and with the exception of Sofieh, all children match the information from aunt Vera's sheet. Putting ages and places of birth of children together, great, great grandfather John Timms and his wife Mary Trevor must have come to Canada after 1861 (the birth of William), and before 1871 when the census occurred. The family was first living on a rented property (25 acres) on lot 25, concession 1 of London Township. I do not know when they moved to the acreage near the Hamlet of Cherry Hill (see photo); quite possibly it was after 1857 John married Elizabeth Haley. NOTE TO MYSELF - CHECK THE LOT AND CONCESSION FOR THE CENSUSES - SINCE MARIE WHO WAS BORN IN 1886, WAS NOTED AS BEING BORN IN CHERRY HILL AND VERDA MAY, WHO WAS BORN IN 1898, WAS NOTED AS BEING BORN IN ST. IVES, 1857 JOHN AND HIS FAMILY MUST HAVE MOVED IN BETWEEN.

I found this John Timms, listed as 23 years old in the 1881 census which was performed in April of that year. He and his family are listed on page 40 of the census record for East Middlesex District (167), West Nissouri Township. They are family 176. This is on reel # C-13269. His wife was listed as "Lizzie" and their one child "John" (my grandfather) was shown as a year old. The family is shown as Epis-Meth as to religion. His father was Church of England on the 1871 Ontario census. He - the 1857 John - was baptised as above in the Church of England. Did he convert because Elizabeth's family seems to have been Methodist? His father was shown as a tenant in 1871. Did this John "marry up" into the Haley family which owned land in Nissouri? The family must have had some money given all the comings and goings. I now know that all of the children of William Timms born in 1806, and the nephews and nieces of John Timms born in 1803, inherited some monies from their wills.

In the 1891 census, John Timms is found on page 50 of the pages for West Nissouri, family 236, lines 3 to 8. This is on reel # T-6352. He is shown as 33 years old, married, head of family, born in the USA, with father born in England and mother born in? His religion is listed as Methodist, he is a farmer and he can both read and write. His wife is Elizabeth, age 32, married, born in Ontario, with parents from England and Ireland. She too is Methodist. The children are John, age 11, born in Ontario; Maria, age 9, born in Ontario; Nellie, age 7, born in Ontario; and Mary, age 5, born in Ontario. This page is noted to be on April 30, 1891. Timms is spelled "TIMS"

In the 1901 census, he is still in West Nissouri, on L. (?) concession 3, lot 24, in a S. (?) house, 1 family, 13 rooms, 200 acres, 1 dwelling house, 2 barns or out buildings. Date of visit was 3 April 1901. It says that his family came to Canada in 1865 or 63 - I can not clearly decipher the figure, although I believe it is 1865. That date would fit with John's younger sisters being born in Ontario.

Austin says that this John had a drinking problem - I wonder if his father (1831 John) also had one which might explain why he was not directly given any money in either William Timms' will or his great uncle John's will.

I have found a deed, dated October 3, 1896 from a Charles Ambrose Edward Fitzgerald to Elizabeth Timms. That deed conveys to her the North West corner of Lot 27 in the 3rd concession of the Township of West Nissouri, being fifty acres more or less, for the sum of two thousand dollars. In addition, there is a mortgage back of the same date to Mr. Fitzgerald in the amount of five hundred dollars. John joins in the mortgage. So he was not on title but he signed the montage. Why? Was it her money? Was it his drinking? Did it have anything to do with what she got under the will of her Husband's grandfather? I have never found the will of her father-in-law or even details of his death. Perhaps she got something as a result of that. In any event, the original montage was paid off in 1896. There was another mortgage in 1902 for one thousand dollars and another one in 1909 for seven hundred dollars. One wonders what the money was used for. Finally in 1911, Elizabeth sold the property for three thousand dollars. Was that when they moved into St. Marys?

.......................................................................... ......................................................

I find a Mary Jane in Mountview, Cambridge (Galt), (Section 5), Waterloo, North Dumfries - reference WW-4495; is she the one born in 1867? Check this out

.......................................................................... ......................................................

In searching the census records for St. Mary's in 1901, I found what appeared to be a Sam Timms born September 21, 1850 in England and who emigrated in 1863 and a Thomas Timms and John Timms in another house. Father was born March 6, 1822 in England and son July 14, 1856. They came to Canada in 1855 or 85, depending on the writing. They were listed as farmers. These people do not appear to be related to us.

There is a John E. Timms buried in the Forest Lawn Memorial Gardens Cemetery at 2001 Dundas St. E. London (between Clarke Rd & #100 Highway) and his wife Elizabeth is buried next to him. He is shown as 1882-1952 and she as 1885-1975. The OGS cemetery records reference is MX-141. These people do not appear to be related to us.