Note    N270         Index
The Bishop's Transcript for the Parish shows him at his birth, marriage and the baptisms of his children, as "Frank."

On his daughter's marriage certificate, he is shown as a shoemaker.

He is living next door to his brother William in 1861 with his wife and Frances Matilda.

In 1871, he and "Mary" are living with five children: Fanny 10, Emma 8, Mary 6, Frank 3 and Harry 2. Where was Frances Matilda?

In the 1881 census for Croydon there is a Francis Golding, shoemaker, living at 12 Cambridge Rd. He is 42 years old. He was living with his wife Mary, age 42; his son Frank, age 14; his son Henry, age 11; his daughter Ellen, age 9; his daughter Martha, age 7; and his son Edmund, age 3. Father and mother were born in Hawkhurst in Kent but all the children were born in Croydon. This has to be he. His father was a shoemaker, as is one of his brothers. Here is the entry:
Dwelling:12 Cambridge Rd
Census Place:Croydon, Surrey, England
Source:FHL Film 1341192 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 0813 Folio 32 Page 60
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Francis GOLDING M 42 M Hawkhurst, Kent, England
Mary GOLDING M 42 F Hawkhurst, Kent, England
Frank GOLDING 14 M Croydon, Surrey, England
Henry GOLDING 11 M Croydon, Surrey, England
Ellen GOLDING 9 F Croydon, Surrey, England
Martha GOLDING 7 F Croydon, Surrey, England
Edmund GOLDING 3 M Croydon, Surrey, England

He is in the 1891 census as well.


Note    N271         Index
I believe that I have found her and her parents and siblings in the 1851 census in Hawkhurst. I used that date to fill in the blanks.


Note    N272         Index
Margaret Hulbert says that he was born in Castleton c. 1783 but I cannot find him there. I took his year of birth from his age in the 1871 census. As with his sister, he does not appear on the transcription for Castleton births; where is he? In addition, his marriage to Janet Elliot is not among the marriages found there. Glenna Jamieson speculates as follows:
"Elliot Grieve was born in Scotland. A record of his baptism has not been found. He may have been born in Castleton Parish, in Roxburghshire County, where his brothers and sisters were born and baptized, according to the parish register. A memorial to his parents has not been found as yet, in a cemetery in Castleton and perhaps John Grieve and his wife Elizabeth Paisley had moved out of the parish previous to 1784, to another parish in Roxburghshire, or over to Dumfriesshire County. I did not find Elliot Grieve's baptism on the parish registers I researched, but some of the parish registers are either missing or only partially survive such as the register for Ewes Parish. If he grew up elsewhere, Elliot Grieve appears to have returned to Castleton parish following his marriage to Jennet Elliot about 1805."

She adds that Elliot and Jannet left for North America in 1818 going first to New York State where they lived with Elliot's sister, Mrs. James Beattie. In 1819 he went to Upper Canada. He took up Crown Land in Westminster Twp. Because the lines were not clearly surveyed he settled on the wrong lot. In 1826 the mistake was discovered and Elliot exchanged with Joshua O'Dell. Jannet was the first person buried in Pond Mills Cemetery. His second wife was a widow with two daughters, Cecily b. 1816 and Jane b. 1817.

Here is the land grant to Elliot:
"Under the Authority of an Order in Council of the 16th day of June 1819 granting unto Elliot Grieve a Native of Scotland now of the Township of Westminster in the London District Yeoman One Hundred acres of Land Reg. 6th July 1804. I do hereby assign to the said Elliot Grieve The East half of Lot Number Twenty - One in the First Concession in the township of Westminster in the County of Middlesex in the London District containing One Hundred acres, subject to the Settling Duties required by an order in council of the 20th October 1818, that is to say, to clear and fence Five Acres; ? to build a Dwelling House of 16 feet by 20; and to clear on half of the road in front of each Lot; the whole to be performed within Two Years from the date of this Ticket..."
Given at the Surveyor General's Office at York, U.C. this Sixteenth day of

June 1819 No. 1308 Thos. Ridout

The Westminster Land Index:
Westminster E 1/2 Lot 21 Con 1 1819 06 16 Grieve Elliot.

Glenna also writes:
Elliot Grieve and his wife Jennet were living on Blinkbonny farm in the southwestern corner of Castleton Parish, Roxburghshire County, Scotland, when their first two children were born in 1806 and 1808. Blinkbonny was a few miles south east of Newcastleton, not far south of Tweedenside. When their son William was born in 1810 and daughter Elizabeth was born in 1812 the Grieves lived at Bygate in Castleton Parish. Bygate was up by Newlands Farm. It was not far from Deeburn where William Elliot moved to from Tweedenside. Elliot Grieve was to call his farm in Canada Newlands Farm. Perhaps the Grieves lived on Newlands farm before they left for America. Both the Grieves and the Elliots who came to Westminster lived in the area of Newlands farm. It was not far west of Riccarton Farm and near Blackburn where Elliot Grieve's father John Grieve had lived.

Michael Robson, No Road This Way After Dark"Hermitage Water," pp. 51 - 59
George Harkness Reminiscences in the 1930s: "For many years the farms of Hermitage, Braidlie, Millburnholm and others up Hermitage Water were occupied by an Elliot family. Willie at Millburnholm, who met Sir Walter Scott, was a character."
"We will now go over the Hermitage Bridge, and, leaving the schoolhouse on our left, follow up the road to the Bromyleaks."
"We go on and cross over the Hermitage Water by the wooden bridge at the foot of the Cout's Pool, turn to the right and view that wonderful stronghold, Hermitage Castle. We can then go back to the Hermitage old churchyard and the Cout of Keilder's Grave, which is between the churchyard and the Cout Pool. Although many generations of hill people must have been buried here but few headstones are left and those of not great age. There are also the foundations of the old chapel and the private burying grounds of the Elliots of Hermitage."
"Crossing the Hermitage Water again we come to Queen Mary's Stream... Following up Hermitage Water to Dinleyhaughfoot we can cross back over the river by the footbridge. I want to get to the little Dee Burn and follow it up the hill to where the Deeburn house once stood. There is part of the wall to be seen in the stone dyke. You can also see the old sod dyke round the garden, with an ash tree growing and the Dee Burn running past. The last time I visited this place it was on a Sunday afternoon a few years ago when I had a picnic all by myself on the floor of the old house, and I thought of the happy families that have been brought up here in the days of long ago. There are two headstones in Castleton churchyard with the same of people who died at the Deeburn. The first is Andrew Nixon and his spouse Betty Pott... The next stone is William Elliot's:
In memory of William Elliot who died at Daeburn in 1793 aged 48 years.
This is the house where old Andrew Crozier the clogger's mother was born. She was Margaret Elliot of the Deeburn and is buried in Castleton churchyard. On the headstone is:
In memory of Margaret Elliot, wife of William Crozier, who died November 13 1845 aged 75 years."
"I believe the Long Grain Foot was a very important place a long time before the turnpike road was made..."
"Next we go through the burn to the Whitrope bar..."
"We will now leave the Bar and return down the road to the Long Grain Foot, then back over the old drove road to the gateway in the march dyke at Deeburn. There we come to the Rispy Law, a house which sat close to the drove road. The next place is Old Braidlie, where Martin Elliot had his peel tower, but I am not sure of the exact spot where the tower stood. From here we can go up to Mosspatrickhope, another Elliot stronghold, where only a few faint marks are to be seen."
"From here we follow past Old Gorrenberry to Billhopefoot, which is a beautiful spot in summer but, I think, the wildest spot in Liddesdale in the winter time..."
"We will leave Billhopefoot and return down Hermitage Water. There is a bridle road that led over Hartsgarth fell and on to Redheugh, crossing the Hermitage Water at the Thirty Shilling Haugh close to the Park tower... Further on again we come to where the farm of Catlehills used to be, then to Nether and Over Dinley, and so to the most beautiful part of Hermitage which lies between the Braidlie bridge and the top of the Greystone Haugh. From Dinleyhaughfoot we pass the end of the old housestead which stood on the Greystonehaugh and follow the road down to the Castle cottage, where we turn to the right and on to the Toftholm hill. The first farm that we reach is the Tofts, followed by the Toftholm. Again we turn to the right and cross the Knowe Burn to the Over Raw, better known as the Upper Raw..."
"The next house on our road is the White Knowe, which stood near the Knowe Bridge.."
"Coming down the road we reach Nether Raw; this was also a little farm at one time, but has suffered the same fate as the Upper raw and has entirely disappeared. The last man to farm the Nether Raw was Matthew Elliot. 'In memory of Matthew Elliot who died at Nether Raw on the 16th of March 1877 aged 88 1/2 years.' After Matthew's death the farm buildings were demolished, and the hill land planted. This is now known as the Nether Raw Planting. The rest of the land was laid into Hartsgarth.
Instead of continuing down the road we will turn over the Newlands bridge. The first house that we come to is the Newlands, which was a small farm at one time, but has now been turned into a shooting lodge (1930s). Then along the road is the site of Paddington, which was a small farm a very long time ago... We then come to the Nether and Over Steele, both of which were very good farms. They were tenanted in the raiding days by the Croziers and the Elliots, who were noted thieves. We next follow the old cart road down to Bygate, the third of the Elliot farms. In later times when the Duke of Buccleuch laid out Copshawholm in 1793 he took the land of Copshaw Park, and gave the tenant, John Elliot, the farm of Bygate which he occupied until his death. Then Mr. Ballantyne of Shaw's grandfather got possession and farmed it for a few years, left there and went to Newlands and then to Shaws. There is another house I have not mentioned, Bygatewood. When you leave Bygate to go to the Steele, just outside the gate in the Bygate march dyke you can see the old housestead quite plainly. I have no idea who the last people would be that lived in it. There is an old tumbledown stone dyke leads away from Bygatewood, pointing towards Paddington. I wonder if this would be the march between Nether Steele and Paddington or Newlands.
Leaving Bygate we take the old cart track to the Leahaugh. The road has been a right of way for hundreds of years, until the end of the eighteenth century when they began to make turnpike roads and build bridges. There were no other kinds of road in Liddesdale at one time, but tracks like this. It has been a fairly well-made road through the Bygate ground, but the hedge has been allowed to grow wild and now covers most of the road, making it almost impassable. Taking this way we pass Longhaugh and Leahaugh, cross over the hill to Corries-Shiel and then on to Hartsgarth tower. Then our road is by Nether and Over Foulshiels and Redheugh, and we cross Ralton Burn and pass Greenshiels, then the Old Shiels along past the Shiellea sheepfolds, and reach Hernshiels...."
"The first is Hernshiels, then the Old Shiels, Greenshiels, Annetshiels where there were two houses. Blackburn, the Oulack, Little Blackburn, Old Blackburn, the Blackdubs, and through the burn to Blackburnfoot where there were two cottages and an inn..."

The Grieves left Scotland in 1818 for North America, going first to New York State, where Mr. Grieve's sister, Mrs. James Beattie, had settled. Elliot Grieve and his family were the first ones in the Grieve family to settle in Upper Canada. However, they may have chosen to come to Westminster Township in Middlesex County because relatives of Jennet Grieve were already there. Ninian and Adam Elliot had settled there in 1817, the first of these Scottish Borderers to settle in Westminster Township in Upper Canada.

Glenna Jamieson says that in the 1842 census, he said that he had been in Canada West for 16 years. If accurate, that would mean that he came in 1826. That cannot be right as his wife died here in 1824

I found him and Jane (Baty) in the census taken on January 11, 1852. He is a farmer on lot 30, concession 1, Westminster Township. He is listed as 68 years old on his next birthday. Jane is shown as 69 on her next birthday. Living with them are Elliot Jr. 25 on his next birthday and his wife Elizabeth (Douglas) 26 on his next birthday and as well a child, John, age 2 on his next birthday. Presumably, John is the son of Elliot Junior and Elizabeth.

Mrs. Jamieson also says that the Rev. Proudfoot makes particular mention of him as the person with whom he stayed when he went to the township. He says "He is a man on whom I have more dependance than any other in the country because I think he is a good man." I have found countless references to him in Rev Proudfoot's diaries. He seems to hold many early church services at Elliot Grieve's home.

I have received some information from an apparently unrelated individual - Robert Nichol - that sheds some possible light on this Elliot Grieve. It consists of a note taken from a family account and another one from a family celebration reported in a newspaper. (There are several Nichols in the tree.) I will see if I can find exactly where my Elliot Grieve was living in 1819.

"Landing at Port Stanley, the men of the party, which included Francis
Nichol, Janetez Nichol, his brother, Robert and Adam Nichol, his brothers
in law, Alexander Oliver, Robert Jardine, Alexander Anderson, Alexander
Grieve, walked to Westminster to Elliot Grieve's on Concession 2 near Pond
Mills. Mr. Grieve had come out to Canada in 1819 from the same part of
Scotland. On the way they called in at Donald Fraser's to inquire the way.
Mr. Fraser's farm is now owned by the Farmer's Advocate and known as
Weldwood Farm. Arriving at Mr. Grieve's they got his ox sled and went back
for the women of the party and what household effects they had. "

The following appeared in a London, Ontario newspaper, probably the London
Advertiser in 1933 during the centenary of the arrival of Francis Nichol
and his family in Westminster Township, Ontario.


Just 100 years ago, in the year 1833, Francis Nichol, a native of
Roxborough, Scotland, becoming dissatisfied with conditions in his native
land and wishing to better his circumstances, decided to sell all his
belongings and emigrate to Canada with his family, consisting of himself,
his wife, Janet, his three sons, John, aged 10 years; Thomas, aged 7;
Francis 5, and his daughter Mary, aged -3 years. Later two sons, Adam and
William were born in Canada. Mr. Nichol was then 51 years old. His
occupation in Scotland was that of a carrier and dealer in flour and meal.
He had a number of carts driving back and forth between Scotland and
England. Mr. John Ballantyne, father of the late Rev. F. Ballantyne, was
at one time one of his drivers."

Here are some more "facts" re the arrival of Elliot:
The Grieve Family Newlands Farm Lot 20 Concession 1 Westminster
By John McDougall Grieve
Researched by Isabella Grieve

"Elliot Grieve with his wife, Jennet Elliott and family left Roxboroughshire, Scotland to come to America. After spending a year with his sister Jane, Mrs. James Beattie, in New York state, near Ithaca, they came to Upper Canada in July 1819. He took up Crown Land in Westminster Township, the east half of Lot 21, Concession 1, a long 100 acres stretching from the 2nd Con. to the Baseline. Because the lines were not clearly surveyed he settled on the wrong lot, cleared land and built his buildings on the south half of Lot 20, Con. 1. In 1826 when the mistake was discovered Elliot Grieve exchanged with Joshua O Dell and got the deed for the property he was living on. One hundred pounds was paid in settlement. In 1903 they purchased 25 acres to the east, along the L. & P. S. railway from Cyrus Sumner. In 1938 one hundred acres to the west was purchased from James House, originally settled by James Nixon. In 1954 eighty-five acres on the south side of Concession 2 was purchased form Herbert Beattie, originally settled by William Beattie.

Elliot and Jennet Grieve had 7 children - John, Jennet, William, Elizabeth, Christian or Kitty, and Elliot & Ninian who died young. John Grieve born in 1806 married Jean Murray and lived on the farm across the road from his father. He was imprisoned during the rebellion of 1837; after spending the winter in jail under the worst conditions he was released in the spring of 1838 but his health was broken and he died shortly after, leaving his wife with 2 small daughters - Ann and Janet. Later Ann married Adam Lind and Janet married James Walter, his widow Jean married William Duguid.

Jennet Grieve married Ninian Elliot and lived north of Dorchester Village. William married Margaret Beattie and lived on the farm Lot 24, Con. 2, Westminster. Elizabeth who married Edward Dunn, lived in Lobo Twp. then moved to West Nissouri. Kitty married George Laidlaw; direct descendants still occupy their farm on Con. 3 (in 1982). Mrs. Elliot Grieve, Jennet, died in 1825 and was the first person buried at Pond Mills Cemetery. Elliot Grieve's second wife was a widow, Mrs. Herdman, nee Jane Baty. They had 2 children. Elliot and Margaret (Peggy) who married Jim Fleming.

Elliot married Elizabeth Douglas and they had 7 children: John D., Margaret, Ann, Isabella, William and Agnes. Elliot and Elizabeth moved from the farm to 790 King St., London in 1896, and lived to celebrate their Golden Wedding Anniversary in 1899 with all the family present. Their son William Elliot Grieve stayed on the farm followed by his son John McDougall Grieve, then William Richard Grieve and his son Richard David.

John D. Grieve born in 1850 married Eleanor Elliot. Their family had farms on the London Road near Wyoming, Ont. They had a good maple bush and made quantities of maple syrup in the spring. His sister Margaret married Rev. Frank Ballantyne, who served as pastor in the Presbyterian Church at First Westminster, also at Kirkwill and Ivan charges. They retired to 69 Thornton Ave., London. Ann married Donald Bain and lived on the farm south east of St. Marys. Jane and Isabella lived at 790 King St. "Aunt Belle" was a teacher at Lorne Ave. School until her retirement. William E. Grieve, lived on the homestead. He married Agnes McDougall and later his second wife Jessie Elliot. Agnes Grieve married Arthur Elliott a brother of Eleanor; they lived on a farm, 12th line Moore Township near Sarnia.

In a description of early years on the farm at Westminster we learn that the first buildings were of logs and built on the southwest corner of the property. The second house was frame and part of it was used as a summer kitchen when the brick house was built in 1860. It was a large white brick house 30' x 40', strongly constructed with 3 layers of brick, a complete cellar and a slate roof. It was heated by stoves and a fire place. In 1909 the telephone was installed - The Byron Telephone System; hydro in 1924, hot air furnace in 1926 and bathroom in 1928. The farm barns 30 x 50 were moved in 1878 and built into one large barn 60 x 60 on a site just east of the house. The first livestock were cattle, oxen and sheep. Elliot Grieve bought the first horse in the community from a travelling salesman and the neighbours thought it would be too expensive to keep. Water was plentiful in the creek and ponds on the farm. A well 30' deep was dug near the house, stoned up, and wooden logs and pump used to draw the water. The large brick cisterns were built at the barn for watering the livestock. A drilled well 100' deep was put down in 1908 and a windmill pumped water to fill tanks, one in the barn and one at the well. A pressure system with electric pump was installed in 1942 to supply water for both house and barn. The farming had been mainly dairy with Holstein cattle. The herd was TB tested in 1933 and a purebred herd kept since then, the milk being sold in London. The farm name, "Newlands", a name brought from the farm in Scotland, is used as a prefix on the registered name of the cattle.

The family took an active part in the church and community life. They were staunch Presbyterians and Elliot Grieve 1 with other early settlers organized the First Presbyterian Church Westminster and served as elder. Elliot Grieve II was also an elder at First Westminster and attended King Street Presbyterian Church after he moved to London. He also served as assessor in Westminster Township. Later generations have attended and supported the church, now First Westminster United Church, and took part in community activities, serving on Council and Farm Organizations.

In 1958, the Ancestral Farm was sold and formed part of the area annexed by the city of London in 1960, developed as Westminster Park and built up with houses and schools. The Sir Wilfrid Laurier Secondary School was built on the site of the original log cabin.

The families of John M. Grieve and William R. Grieve moved to farms on lots 19, concessions 3 and 4 of North Dorchester Township in 1960. The barns were demolished but the century-old house still stands firm and secure. Newlands Farm Westminster nurtured then Grieve family for 6 generations. A passer-by who knew the farm would be surprised to see all the streets and houses on land that once grew crops of wheat, corn and hay."

Here is his obituary:
"In Westminster, at his late residence, on the 22nd inst. Elliot Grieve, sen., age 90 years,
a native of Roxburyshire, Scotland, who emigrated to this country in the year 1818."
(The London Free Press, March 24, 1874, p. 1, c. 1).