Note    N1422         Index
He is said to have died of scarlet fever.


Note    N1423         Index
She died of scarlet fever shortly after her brother.


Note    N1424         Index
She is said to have immigrated to Australia.


Note    N1425         Index
She too is said to have immigrated to Australia.


Note    N1426         Index
Like her two sisters, she immigrated to Australia, but she went married.


Note    N1428         Index
Based on various pieces of evidence, including:
1. when and where his parents married (November 16, 1930, at St. Bride Street. London),
2. the date of his birth (December 10, 1831) and baptism (January 10, 1832), and
3. his date and age of arrival with his parents in NYC (6 months old, on April 20, 1832),
I am totally convinced that this John Timms born to William and Sophia Timms when they were living on Brunswick Place, Clerkenwell, London, is my great x2 grandfather. This all fits and is too much of a coincidence to ignore.

After many years of research, I finally found his marriage to Mary Trevor. The register from NYC lists her place of birth as Ireland and not Ohio - very interesting It also says that they were living at 57, 4th Avenue in NYC. The name of the presiding minister seems to have been Reverend J. Thomson. I have learned that Reverend Thomson was a minister in the Fourth Presbyterian Church of NYC. Were they married there because Mary was a Presbyterian from Northern Ireland? Mary is shown as one year younger than John, which would make her born in 1832, not 1836. The marriage registration and the 1850 census for New York City has this John born in New York. However, based on all of the evidence, he had to have been born in England before the family left there in 1832. I expect that such matters were frequently wrong on purpose and otherwise.

On his daughter Mary's marriage certificate to Linus Cole, he is shown as John H. Timms.

According to my aunt Vera's note that I found after her death, this John Timms died in Stratford, England. I have been unable as yet to find a death record for him. His father's will dated October 13, 1779 does not mention him but rather his children. That could have meant that he had died before then. However, in the will of his uncle John of July 20, 1872, John was specifically mentioned and was therefore presumably still alive then. So, did he die in between those two dates, i.e. between 1872 and 1879? On Ancestry, I found a reference to a Michigan death for a John Timms in the period from 1867 to 1950. His spouse is shown as Mary Trevor and a child as Jeanne Gardiner. His daughter Mary Jane did not marry Edward Gardiner until 1920. I am assurming from that that she registered his death long after it occured. His wife Mary was noted as a widow as early as 1889 in Detroit.

He seems to have been a bit of a wanderer. He was born in England and after immigrating with his parents to America in 1832, he spent his childhood in New York City. His first child was born in Boston in 1857, but he appears in various New York City directories throughout the 1850's and 1860's, except that in one year - 1858 - he was listed in the Boston City Directory as a silver plater living at 5 South Cedar Street Place. He was not there the next year or the year after. Then by 1871 he was in southern Ontario. If that census is to be believed, he was there from about 1866. I say that as his daughter Sarah Sophia was born there in that year. So where was he from 1858 to 1866? Back in England possibly? The 1901 census for Ontario, which includes the son John Timms and his wife, says that the family came to Ontario in 1863. The obituary for his son John says that he (the son) spent his childhood in England, came back to New York and then lived in New England. In any event, I cannot find this John after about 1875. I have determined that his wife Mary was in Detroit by 1889, and calling herself a widow. One of their sons was in Kansas by the mid 1880's. If he died in England, when and why did he go back there? In the will of his father his children split one quarter of the residue of the estate.

I am assuming that since his wife Mary Trevor lived in Detroit with their daughters after 1889 and died there, that she went to live there after her husband's death. I may be totally wrong; however, for example they may have been divorced. His wife Mary said she was a widow by 1889 or at least she was listed as a widow in the Detroit directory by that year. She is also shown as a widow in the US census for 1900 and in a 1906 Detroit city directory. Neither John nor Mary appear on the 1880 US Census. As well, they do not appear in the 1881 Canadian census. Where were they? Had they both gone to England for some reason?

He was first a silver plater. He apparently tried his hand at farming in southern Ontario. The 1850 census for New York City, which was supposedly done on June 1st, shows him at age 18 as a silver plater already. He was then living with his father and his siblings in Ward 19. This Ward started west bound on East 40th St. from the East River to fifth Avenue, continuing west bound on West 40th St. to Sixth Avenue to West 86th St; then east bound on West 86th St. to fifth Avenue continuing east bound on East 86th to East River.

There is a John Timms, plater, shown in New York City in the 1858 Trow's Directory, at 224 Eighth Avenue. At that time, his brother William was a fish dealer at 161 Eighth Avenue and lived at Tenth Avenue near West 51st St. As John's son John was born in Boston in December 1857, that leaves the question of whether Trow's is wrong or if they moved back to New York. The 1863 Manhattan Directory has a John Timms, plater, living on Tenth Avenue near West 51st St. I did find a John Timms silver plater in the Boston city directory for 1858. He was shown as living at 5 South Cedar St. As this coincides with the birth certificate information for his son John born in 1857, this must be he. He must have spent part of 1858 in New York and part in Boston. I could not find him again for any of the years up to 1870. There was a John Timms, silversmith in Boston in 1850 but that is probably not he. Did the family live in New York until they came to Canada?

The 1871 census for Ontario shows a John Timms, silver plater, living in Middlesex East District, London Township. (According to the instructions given to the enumerators, the statement of facts regarding population and deaths noted in the census, are to be as they actually were on April 2, 1871.) His age (40) would make him exactly the right age to be my great, great grandfather. He is shown as being born in England and as belonging to the Church of England. His wife is shown to be Mary aged 38. She is shown as being born in the U.S.A. Both of her parents are shown as being of English origin. There are 5 children listed: John aged 13, born in the U.S.A.; William aged 10, born in the U.S.A.; Sarah Sofieh (it may be Sophia, but is very hard to read - given that her grandmother was Sophia, it is probably spelled like that), aged 5, born Ontario; Mary Jane aged 4, born in Ontario; and Ellen aged 3, born in Ontario. The age of John matches the age of my great grandfather at that time and with the exception of Sofieh, all children match the information from my aunt Vera's sheet. Since the birth registers for Ontario do not start until 1869, none of the children would have been registered civilly but there should be baptisms somewhere. I have been unable to find those births even after looking at various church registers and pre 1869 birth records. The entry has been misread a Timmis by the people who did the index. I have looked at the original and it is definitely Timms

On schedule 4 of the 1871 census, John is shown as a tenant on lot 25, concession 1, London Township. He had 25 acres with 5 acres in pasture and 1 acre in gardens or orchard. The yield was 50 bushels of oats, 20 of buckwheat, and 20 of corn. There were 2 acres of potatoes with a yield of 200 bushels. He had 1 acre of hay which yielded over 1 ton of hay. According to the instructions given to enumerators, the quantities shown are to be the actual amounts produced, whether consumed on site or sold. (This information is on reel # C-9905.) (Reel # C-9906 also has two William Haleys aged 64 and 37 which are almost certainly two of my Williams.)

Ok, so everyone but my grandfather is gone from Ontario by 1881 and I now know that Mary Timms (Trevor) was living in Detroit with the 2 youngest daughters by 1889, there are a lot of unanswered questions including where was everybody from 1871 to 1890. Why did John die back in England (according to aunt Vera?) He does not appear on the 1881 UK census as far as I can tell. I cannot find him in the 1880 US census either. Was he always in transit? Did he avoid the census?

I cannot find his daughters in the 1900 US census, even though they are in Detroit directories from 1889 on. Why not? Were the girls back with some relative in England or Canada?

I have found a death for a John Timms, age 42, dying in Stratford on Avon in the third quarter of 1873. That squares with the note found among aunt Vera's papers that said that he died there. Why would he have gone to England then? He was in Ontario in 1871. If it is he, did the whole family go there? I must get the actual record.