Note    N448         Index
Was there more than one Edward born to William and Elzabeth? Or do I have the entry wrong? This one seems to have died in 1750. Yet in the will of William's brother John, he refers to "Edward, son of my brother William." There has to be another Edward Timms, son of William Timms

Does this possible second one ever marry? When does he die?

In the will of his uncle John made in March 1801, he is described as being in Stowerton and is a butcher. June Timms (Thornton) says that there is a Edward Timms, butcher, of Stourton, in LDS film# 0557287 which is a copy of Stourton Valuations. If this is correct, then he was alive then.

The problem relates to properties. There is a mortgage dated June 2, 1807 from William Timms to Francis Findon. Part of what is being mortgaged is the March Close. It is referred to as being in the occupation of the late Edward Timms, father of William. We know that John Timms left the March Close to his nephew Edward Timms of Sutton. If he meant grand nephew, then that grand nephew could not be the Edward Timms who married Elizabeth Rouse, as he did not die until 1840? Unfortunately, there is no age for the Edward who died in 1806 and left a will naming his sons Edward, William and a daughter Elizabeth Jacques. Why is there burial record for the Edward who died in 1806? There is a MI for an Edward Timms who died on January 11, 1806 at age 62. That would mean he was born in the year ending January 11, 1744. His wife Elizabeth died April 27, 1807, at age 57.

Is it his son Edward who is described as Edward Timms of Sutton, farmer? If so, then he is a grand nephew but that would not fit with other persons where the qualifier is not there.

Man this is confusing


Note    N449         Index
In the will of his uncle John written in March 1801, he is described as being in Chipping Norton, Oxfordshire and is, like his father and brother, a butcher. I believe that he married his cousin Mary Webb in Chipping Norton, in 1791. For the moment, I will go with her as as his wife. He is also in the will of his

I have learned that John was the landlord of the Red Lion Inn in Chipping Norton. This note was sent to me from Peter Tyrell of the Chipping Norton Historical Society:
John Timms appears in the Victualler's Recognizances September 9, 1792 as Licensee of the Red Lion. This set of records runs from 1750 and I have copies for 1750,1761, 1771 and 1782. It looks like he took the Red Lion over between 1771 and 1782 as he is not mentioned earlier. A local historian sadly no longer with us, wrote a book back in 1986 called Chipping Norton Inns which I then got published for him. In there he states that originally the Inn was called the Hare and Hounds but renamed possibly by John Timms (not certain) who also carried on his trade as a butcher. It would appear John had financial difficulties in 1799 and made an Assignment with his creditors to release the Red Lion together with household goods, corn, hay, horses, mares, carts, cattle, sheep, etc.

In 2014, I recived an email from a Dave Nobbs on behalf of the Chipping Norton Museum saying that John was granted the license to the Red Lion in October 1801. This would imply that John was able to get back on his feet. In 1809, the license was granted to his wife Mary, who ran it until sometime in 1810. This presumably occured after John's death. Mr. Nobbs added that the Red Lion was demolished in the late 19th century to allow the road that is nnow known as the Cattle Market to be built through to Back Lane/Albion Street.

In The Universal British Directory from 1791 for Chipping Norton, John Timms appears listed among the principal inhabitants as a butcher. As well, I found him on a website listing master and apprentices. He was shown as a master in 1780 and 1785. In the 1786 warrant list of masters and apprentices, John is shown as taking a butcher's apprentice named Richard Fawdry, on December 21, 1785.


Note    N450         Index
The date of his baptism comes from the parish records for Whichford. The dates of his marriage and his burial come from the Whichford parish records as well. He was the son of Edward Timms and Judith. He died sometime in 1743 - presumably in early May. I am presuming for the moment that he is the Edward Timms junior of Whichford who was buried May 13, 1743 according to the parish records. His will is dated May 4, 1743. The executor swore his oath on June 13, 1744.

Here as I can best transcribe it is his will:

In the name of God amen I Edward Timmes of Stourton in the County of Warwick yeoman Being Weak in Body But of Sound and Disposing Mind and Understanding praises to Almighty God Do make my last will as follows my Soul I comitt to the *** of Almighty God my Body I comitt to the Earth to be buried at the Disposition of my Executrix hereafter named and also my worldly Estate I dispose as follows

ffirst I give to Mary my Dearly Beloved wife The one half of the Messuages or tennements in which I live and in and which I am now entitled(?) to, and also the one yard Land called The Auhout(?) yard Land and The half of ye Two meadows and ye moors lying next to Ascott***(?) & now in my pofsefsion all lying in the liberty of Stourton aforesaid. To hold to her during the Term of her naturale life in full Satisfaction of all dower and thurity(?) this sale or Shall claime in any of my Lands or heridiments in case She Shall *** *** *** a widow and immediately after her Death or Second Marriage which ever Shall first happen I give all the aforesaid property unto my Son Edward Timmes and his heirs and afsigns forever The same being given to my Said wife for her own Support and Maintenance and dower & Br***ing up my three Children, which Said property I do hereby Charge with the payment of the Sum of ffourteen pounds apiece unto my Daughters Mary and Ann Timms Which I do hereby give to them respectively to be paid to them as they shall respectively arrive to their ages of one and Twenty years or Dates of Marriage which shall first happen, and if either of them shall dye before their portion shall become payable then I give ** portion of her unto the survivor of them Two, And in case my wife shall Dye before the portion Given to my Daughters shall become Due, I now charge the aforesaid property with payment of *** for *** the Sums after *** of ffour pounds *** ***A**.

Item I give and Devise the Ground called Six Boys aflso lying in Stourton aforesaid unto my Brother John Timmes and Walter Webb Both of Stourton aforesaid **** their executors and Afsigns for the Term of one hundred *** *** *** *** *** they and the survivor of *** Sall and May *** out of *** and *** profitts thereof or *** mortgages thereof *** and pay to my Sisters Judith and Mary Tims and to Either of Them the Sums of ffour**** pounds apeice as they Shall Severally attain their respective ages of One and Twenty and my father on that amount or to that *** *** *** *** *** And after the payment thereof I Give the sumes of Twenty *** unto my Said Son Edward Tims and his heirs forever, All the Rest and Residue of my Mefsuage Lands *** and herediments Whatsoever, *** ** I am now seized or possessed of or any *** *** *** unto after the Death of my ffather and mother I give unto my said Son Edward and his Hiers forever, It is my *** will and D*** *** my said brother John Timmes and Walter Webb the Trustees of this my will Shall not be *** further own knowingly and *** *** *** *** *** and not further *** *** *** *** on that amount or that purpose and **** *** *** Each other *** I Give and bequeath unto my Said Dear Wife all my Goods that *** Stock Crops Household Goods implements of Husbandry and *** Estate whatsoever until my son Shall attain his age of Sixteen yeares. And immediately after he Shall attain that age I give the Same to my Said son and obliging my Said Wife to account to him for the Same And I hereby constitute and appoint my said wife Sole Executrix of this my will I hereby De**ing her and alfso the aforesaid trustees of this my will *** the Same performed according to my *** *** *** And lastly I hereby Revoke all former wills by ** ** ** ** my will Two sheets of paper and to Each Sheet put my hand and Seal this *** Fourth Day of May the yeare of our Lord God one thousand Seven Hundred and Forty Three

Edward Tims

his mark

Signed Sealed Published and Declared by the Testator
in the presence of us who at his request and in his presence
and in the presence of Each other have hereunto published our
names as witnefses
Henery Timmes
Ann Webb of Stowerton, widdow
Thomas Mander

13th June 1774
The Executrix within was
Sworn in Common form